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 Weapons Template matter

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Shura

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PostSubject: Weapons Template matter   Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:33 am

Escher wrote:
Shura wrote:
you really should rethink about some things, i mean

Vizards have a Zanpakuto, they can have Bankai, but they also have hollow masks and can use ressurection with their hollow masks?

This Tousen black grasshopper thing...

thats kinda broken you know... its not because THERE IS broken things in bleach, that those broken things can work in a rp

The same for the Segunda Etapa.... how will that work? all the espada will have? 3? 1?
cause even without segunda etapa the espada were really strong, ulquiorra probably only had it in order to make ichigo hollow go berserk as a plot wise device.

I mean are there gonna be crazy broken ichigos, to kill them here?



1. vizards use both templates; one for their mask and one for their zanpakuto. its the same as everywhere else.

2. yes some things in bleach are broken but they are proved. I do need to say that the vizard res will not be used however until a rank system is given to them.

3. only the top 3 espada are allowed segunda etapa. I have that listed already.

4. there is a proper place for this called the help desk, i don't need my weapons template topic crowded with messages.i don't mean to be brutal, but I want things done my way here.




Last edited by Shura on Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Weapons Template matter   Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:46 am

Thanks for moving it here, now to business. You must have been editing your message when i posted my response. I hope you agree with me on #1 at least. Although I agree in some ways with seguda etapa being a plot twist in the manga, I still find it something of a challenge for the shinigami to beat in RP situations. This is why its limited to only the top three espada, excluding the hollow king so 4 in total and i have also decided that a ten post duration will be enforced on it as well. the vizards resurreccion will be treated the same way; only being available to the highest ranks with the same duration but be unavailable until then. Does this answer all your questions?
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PostSubject: Re: Weapons Template matter   Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:57 am

yeah i was but decided to post down here
1 - i don't have any problem with that, thats natural anywhere

2 - Proved? how come? thats funny, cause it's been a long time since Kubo did something understandable, like the "i can use souls to drink without touching the glass"
...kubo probably is on drugs...
and Tousen ress was a so dumb shit idea that it got killed just as fast as it appeared.

Cause if so shinji or any other visored, whos been in control of their powers longer than Tousen, would also have used it in order to fight Aizen. Tousen's power is more like granted due Aizen and the use of the Hōgyoku power, the same way as he used to create the Espada/Arrancar. I don't think it's like a natural thing for a Vizard to obtain, no matter its rank.

For the segunda etapa... i guess i'm okay then, if you think that way
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PostSubject: Re: Weapons Template matter   Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:06 pm

2- i agree completely, but we choose this manga so i guess we are stuck with the guy huh? the way i see it though is that its proven because tosen and ichigo were able to enter a res state. thats my meaning behind proven. if two or more members of bleach have the ability, than its a proven part of bleach. sure segunda etapa doesn't fall under that category but it makes the RP's more exciting, especially where the arrancar lack members already. Plus it is possible for shinji to know of the resurreccion but was cut down by Aizen before he could use it.
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PostSubject: Re: Weapons Template matter   Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:18 pm

Quote :
Vizards have a Zanpakuto, they can have Bankai, but they also have hollow masks and can use ressurection with their hollow masks?


The first three are VERY common to Vizard. The Ressurreccion should require training, and to be played out in RP (Same as Segunda Etapa) in my opinion. - Also, Vizards ARE a superior race to Shinigami, it's hinted at at nearly every opportunity in Bleach. So yes, their potential strength should be stronger, but their numbers more limited.

Quote :
2 - Proved? how come? thats funny, cause it's been a long time since Kubo did something understandable, like the "i can use souls to drink without touching the glass"
...kubo probably is on drugs...
and Tousen ress was a so dumb shit idea that it got killed just as fast as it appeared.

He can do what he wants, and what he does makes it Canon. There's no denying that, so no, why drift from what we're told in the manga? If we do, it's "like" Bleach - but not bleach. Tousen was a COMPLETE Arrancar, just to add. He was the pinnacle of the Hogyoku's power for Vizards, and as such, he could control his hollow form. The Vizard here should have a berserker state when entering it, like Ichigo did.

A note on the Segunda Etapa - It still wasn't as strong as Yammy's res. So it's not a garunteed power house to have it, it's just another boost. An Espada with Segunda Etapa doesn't = insta-win. Shunsui could have dealt with Ulquiorra easily enough with his ability. Fact.

Edit: Hiei won't have a Zanpaktou btw xP
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PostSubject: Re: Weapons Template matter   Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:39 pm

Hiei wrote:
Quote :
Vizards have a Zanpakuto, they can have Bankai, but they also have hollow masks and can use ressurection with their hollow masks?


The first three are VERY common to Vizard. The Ressurreccion should require training, and to be played out in RP (Same as Segunda Etapa) in my opinion. - Also, Vizards ARE a superior race to Shinigami, it's hinted at at nearly every opportunity in Bleach. So yes, their potential strength should be stronger, but their numbers more limited.

they already have the mask they don't need ress


Quote :
2 - Proved? how come? thats funny, cause it's been a long time since Kubo did something understandable, like the "i can use souls to drink without touching the glass"
...kubo probably is on drugs...
and Tousen ress was a so dumb shit idea that it got killed just as fast as it appeared.

He can do what he wants, and what he does makes it Canon. There's no denying that, so no, why drift from what we're told in the manga? If we do, it's "like" Bleach - but not bleach. Tousen was a COMPLETE Arrancar, just to add. He was the pinnacle of the Hogyoku's power for Vizards, and as such, he could control his hollow form. The Vizard here should have a berserker state when entering it, like Ichigo did.

A note on the Segunda Etapa - It still wasn't as strong as Yammy's res. So it's not a garunteed power house to have it, it's just another boost. An Espada with Segunda Etapa doesn't = insta-win. Shunsui could have dealt with Ulquiorra easily enough with his ability. Fact.

good... shunsui, zaraki, or Yama losing his leg sacrificing his self... the point is, it needs extreme strength against them or the luck of the draw, but im okay i feel it needs challenge in rp as escher said.

Edit: Hiei won't have a Zanpaktou btw xP

hiei my only problem as stated before is not Visored having bankai and stuff... you should have read before...
its their RESS...

yeah, just to think that theres still at least more 10 years of bleach coming... makes me really wonder about how worse can things become in bleach... but anyway...

ichigo well is far from broken, rules never applied to him and he never was like model to anything... and tousen his loyalty made him like the perfect experiment subject for aizen.

I don't think shinji knew something and before the espada they(not only the visoreds, but everybody) never even knew about ressurection. Its not like Urahara has a copy of the Hōgyoku and did experiments too in that meantime and discovered everything, cause thats too much speculation even for Urahara.

i just feel that this isn't like very appropriated.

its not because it appeared in the manga that it should be applied here, i mean cause then here would be a canon forum.

Its a bleach based forum from what understood, things should be rational to some point and considered, instead adding every crazy idea Kubo has while on bathroom.

Suzumebashi canon ability?
and Loads of weapon materialization (senbozakura)

won't be allowed? but they are cannon aren't them?





Last edited by Shura on Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Weapons Template matter   Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:08 pm

Quote :
hiei my only problem as stated before is not Visored having bankai and stuff... you should have read...
its their RESS...

Read Below

Quote :
Tousen was a COMPLETE Arrancar, just to add. He was the pinnacle of the Hogyoku's power for Vizards, and as such, he could control his hollow form. The Vizard here should have a berserker state when entering it, like Ichigo did.

Yeah, I meant Vizard. But as I said, berserker should be a requirement once Res is entered, and it should only be able to be activated if the character is near death. Then, it should only last a few posts, and if they're not victorious in that time, they die. Right?

Quote :
ichigo well is far from broken, rules never applied to him and he never was like model to anything... and tousen his loyalty made him like the perfect experiment subject for aizen.

I didn't mention Ichigo excessively in my post - I only said about the berserker state, simply because we've only seen two Vizard Res's in Bleach. Read the "Tousen was a COMPLETE Vizard" (Which it was meant to say) again. None of the Vizard here will be complete I would assume, because well, that's not fair, and it's a time consuming process.

Quote :
I don't think shinji knew something and before the espada they(not only the visoreds, but everybody) never even knew about ressurection. Its not like Urahara has a copy of the Hōgyoku and did experiments too in that meantime and discovered everything, cause thats too much speculation even for Urahara.

Likely to be the case. I doubt any of them had met the pre-requirements to gain the form (Death / near death, because Ichigo's inner hollow ALWAYS said if Ichigo failed he would take over, remember?).

Quote :
its not because it appeared in the manga that it should be applied here, i mean cause then here would be a canon forum.

Its a bleach based forum from what understood, things should be rational to some point, instead adding every crazy idea Kubo has while on bathroom.

If we ignore parts of it, then we will ignore other parts. Kido? Pfft, I've decided #91 isn't Kurohitsugi, it's random 'x'. Kido doesn't have to fill a particular role either, and can be used to power up your character and even transform them! - This NEVER happened in Bleach, but we can add it because it's Bleach based? Why not add an all powerful super race, which has every ability of every race ever? You either follow the Bleach rules or you don't. These forms have been shown in Bleach, and each is of incredible rarity.

But yes, I agree that Vizard Res isn't needed, and I won't be even filling it in on my application. But still, it should be there, if only for a select few characters who have trained excessively for it. It makes for some good character development. Heck, Segunda Etapa isn't needed, but it should be a reward for good RPing and character development.

From what you've said, you simply don't want it there, but Segunda Etapa doesn't seem to be causing too much issues for you. You just appeared to want to know how it will work. This makes me think you're making an Arrancar? The fact is - If you want Segunda Etapa in a Bleach RP, someone should have Vizard Res to balance it out. "For every action there's a reaction".

Also, about the Kubo abuse - If he's so terrible, why read the manga / watch the show? He has had some bad ideas, but he has also had some very good ones.

Hiei out.
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PostSubject: Re: Weapons Template matter   Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:32 pm

Hiei wrote:


But yes, I agree that Vizard Res isn't needed, and I won't be even filling it in on my application. But still, it should be there, if only for a select few characters who have trained excessively for it. It makes for some good character development. Heck, Segunda Etapa isn't needed, but it should be a reward for good RPing and character development.

From what you've said, you simply don't want it there, but Segunda Etapa doesn't seem to be causing too much issues for you. You just appeared to want to know how it will work. This makes me think you're making an Arrancar? The fact is - If you want Segunda Etapa in a Bleach RP, someone should have Vizard Res to balance it out. "For every action there's a reaction".

Also, about the Kubo abuse - If he's so terrible, why read the manga / watch the show? He has had some bad ideas, but he has also had some very good ones.

Hiei out.

you're wrong i don't feel like segunda etapa is needed at all too, and no i don't think of playing as arrancar.

Balance out?

ok lets see...
Vizard
Zan/ Shikai / [Bankai] / Mask (RESS)

Arrancar
Zan/Ress (SE)

Shini
zan/shikai/ [Bankai]

FB
Awakened/ [Ascended]

Quincy
Glove/ [FinalForm]

and you say that removing the ress from vizards will unbalance things? remember this is BLEACH BASED RP FORUM

btw i don't watch the show, i still read cause its hard to stop an habit after 10 years, but the bleach golden age is over for sure.

even so i like to roleplay, and its hard to find rp forums lately that aren't dead... many ppl lost their interest in bleach rp due kubo last ideas.
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PostSubject: Re: Weapons Template matter   Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:18 pm

What part about Vizard being a superior race didn't you understand? If a Captain gains a hollow mask, they're stronger than they were, and therefore stronger than a Captain. You can't just suddenly declare they're STILL the same level as a Captain after gaining such a power up. As for the Res, just stop the user from being able to use Shikai and Bankai with it (Ichigo is the only person we've seen have Bankai with it, and he don't count). - And make it equal to Bankai, but with different abilities (As I think it should be) - And only accessable upon near death with a hash contract (If you don't win in 5 posts, you die). There, balanced. Segunda Etapa is a straight power up, so that cannot be done. Instead, give it a time limit like a Hollow Mask (There is one, right?). Once the time runs out, they're out of Reiryoku, and effectively out of the fight. If these make it in, that's what I would like to see personally. Agreed?
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PostSubject: Re: Weapons Template matter   Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:33 pm

ok this superior race thing is really weird... just stop pls...
and i'm not declaring they are the same level, geez where did you read that?
what I'm saying over and over is that the RESS IS UNNECESSARY

i mean
i'm not doing an arrancar as you thought as if i was afraid of losing power, or something like that, for vizards also been able to have ress, but

you're doing a vizard ok
you said you aren't gonna have Ress ok
so why are you bitching because i said there shouldn't have ress for vizards in this rp? i just can't get it, you're the one afraid of losing power?

my opinion is based solely about making things more enjoyable and balanced, not about following w/e Kubo created now and how we will put this in the rp for the sakes of the canon ideas.
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PostSubject: Re: Weapons Template matter   Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:41 pm

Quote :
ok this superior race thing is really weird... just stop pls...
and i'm not declaring they are the same level, geez where did you read that?
what I'm saying over and over is that the RESS IS UNNECESSARY

Are you an idiot? That's EXACTLY what you're bitching about. Vizard have a new form which is unique to their race. You're complaining about balance. My point is that while Res is unneccessary, it's not going to remove the imbalance that being Vizard and Arrancar create. (The top four Espada, for example, are known to be above the average Captain, and the rest are a bit below). The only reason Res is unnecessary is because it makes them more powerful. If that's the case, do we rework all the races and make them equal, because from what I can see, that's what you want. Should that happen? The whole point about the Vizard being a superior race was to show just that - They're going to have the advantage no matter what.
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PostSubject: Re: Weapons Template matter   Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:03 pm

Hiei wrote:
Quote :
ok this superior race thing is really weird... just stop pls...
and i'm not declaring they are the same level, geez where did you read that?
what I'm saying over and over is that the RESS IS UNNECESSARY

Are you an idiot? That's EXACTLY what you're bitching about. Vizard have a new form which is unique to their race. You're complaining about balance. My point is that while Res is unneccessary, it's not going to remove the imbalance that being Vizard and Arrancar create. (The top four Espada, for example, are known to be above the average Captain, and the rest are a bit below). The only reason Res is unnecessary is because it makes them more powerful. If that's the case, do we rework all the races and make them equal, because from what I can see, that's what you want. Should that happen? The whole point about the Vizard being a superior race was to show just that - They're going to have the advantage no matter what.


ok how would the vizards here achieve the ress? with simple training ? yeah right...
cause we go back to the starting point
only 2 person achieved that
the broken Ichigo and Tousen who had Aizen and hogyoku, that doesn't sounds like training.

its not a natural thing in any way no matter what.

we have the hogyouku here? oh wait we will have Aizen and his supreme intellect here to help the visoreds to achieve that shit?

THATS THE REASON

they don't need it, just having the mask already grants them a lot of power, can't you see the point?


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PostSubject: Re: Weapons Template matter   Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:11 pm

Firstly, sorry about my last post. I've just re-read it and realised how much of an ass I was, so yeah, sorry >.<.

Anyway, yes, I see your point as clear as day and agree with you entirely. However, removing said res and keeping segunda etapa is also a huge issue. If one exists, so should the other. If one is removed, both should be. That's pretty much the only reason I am saying to keep it, because there is no sign of S.E being removed
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PostSubject: Re: Weapons Template matter   Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:48 pm

whoa whoa whoa guys chill out. Lets break this down admin style.First off, We have NO rank system. this means the power ranking right now is for shit. neither of you can base anything off of terms of power just yet so lets just throw that out of the argument right now. Since i built this place with the mindset of how this place should go i think this best describes it: This is a alternative bleach site with bleach rules. This is visible in many ways, such as espada being ranked numbers 0-9, superhumans being rightfully called fullbringers, and places other than karakura town.

ok so here it goes:

1.vizard res.

-no bankai or shikai while activated (treated like a normal res)
-just as strong as a esapda's segunda etapa of the same level
-beserked while in this state
-can only be activated after taking massive damage
-lasts 15 posts including after fight
-If the mask isn't broken by the 15 post limit, the vizard hollowfies
-must be trained for IC by one who already possesses the ability
- First two ranked vizards will be given the ability to train others with (this is after a rank system has been applied however for the rank)

thats what i've got in mind for the vizard res, since that seems to be the matter in question here. Is this acceptable you two?
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PostSubject: Re: Weapons Template matter   Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:33 pm


Escher wrote:


-beserked while in this state
-If the mask isn't broken by the 15 post limit, the vizard hollowfies
-must be trained for IC by one who already possesses the ability
- First two ranked vizards will be given the ability to train others with (this is after a rank system has been applied however for the rank)


For berserked, you mean he won't stop attacking for nothing, and will attack anything and anybody near, ok

The mask can be broken with a single punch or something like that? or there will be some kind of test the person must do in order to, or try to, break it before hollowfying ?

Hollowfying they practically lose their character ?

then it should stated on the hollow mask template that only the 2 most high ranked visored have it, everybody else needs to gain it IC.
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PostSubject: Re: Weapons Template matter   Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:52 pm

will attack anyone and anything that moves

yes broken by the simplest punch or sword tap

yes they will lose their character

will add that after this i all cleared up
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PostSubject: Re: Weapons Template matter   Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:03 pm

then theres no danger of using it,
besides killing some innocents humans or your partners
as no one will never stay that much long with their ress

breaking so easily makes it sounds more like a waste of energy, breaking and killing everything around or just a way to show off

but, ok
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PostSubject: Re: Weapons Template matter   Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:03 am

ok, all changes have been made regarding this matter. If everything has been taken care of this topic will be moved to the archives.
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